Custom BSP

CrysisFX · Post by **CrysisFX** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:44 pm

For those who dont know this is AFuzySquirrel

Anyways, i just thought this up but i think it could work.

So down in the BSP tag if i remember correctly there are reflexives for BSP collision, but it just lists literally millions of x,y, and z cords. So if i were to make a program to export all these cords into a text file in some organized manner, then make a plugin for 3ds or Milkshape that could map out the cords in a mesh, could we accomplish a custom bsp collision?

Maybe export the BSP as an obj and these cords and edit them at the same time to keep the BSP and its collision the same?

kibito87 · Post by **kibito87** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:23 pm

CrysisFX wrote:For those who dont know this is AFuzySquirrel

Anyways, i just thought this up but i think it could work.

So down in the BSP tag if i remember correctly there are reflexives for BSP collision, but it just lists literally millions of x,y, and z cords. So if i were to make a program to export all these cords into a text file in some organized manner, then make a plugin for 3ds or Milkshape that could map out the cords in a mesh, could we accomplish a custom bsp collision?

Maybe export the BSP as an obj and these cords and edit them at the same time to keep the BSP and its collision the same?

If only it were that easy. I hate to say it but I do believe it's not as easy as you think.

Tural · Post by **Tural** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:28 pm

Exporting does not help at all. Pretty sure there are programs that can export collision already. You need a way to import it.

DarkShallFall · Post by **DarkShallFall** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:13 pm

You can already export and import sbsp collision models with entity. However if the collision vertex is moved to far from its original place it will lose its effect. Also theres already a tool called bsp master that allows you to edit the vertexs but the method is still rendered useless.

CrysisFX · Post by **CrysisFX** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:28 pm

So simply changing those values would result in collisions not being there at all?

DarkShallFall · Post by **DarkShallFall** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:37 pm

CrysisFX wrote:So simply changing those values would result in collisions not being there at all?

Indeed. The moving method was used for disabling invisible barriers on Mp levels. Its possible that the methods we use now are incorrect ways of doing things. Manual editing of meta may not even work also, and it would be near impossible to find what part of the maps collision is the reflex your editing.
I remember seeing a bsp edit on zanzibar months ago let me take some time to find it.

CrysisFX · Post by **CrysisFX** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:54 pm

I belive a while back there was one on coag as well, involed a hole in the middle of it.

well i thought for a while about this and what exactly causes collison to fail? came up with a few explanatons myself

1. the values are very sensitive :p

2. As it is simmilar to resigning, you change a value and it is not longer correct with some other calculation unknown to the communiy.

3. Maybe collision is made of somting other than i perfect mesh shabe but a series of meta's put together. I got this idea from an old post from DeTox explaing that he thought that superbounces were caused by the bipd getting loged in between two seperate metas.

So no matter what it all leads back to the poin that we dont know enough about havok's collision engine to do anything about it, let alone the fact that bungie could have edited the engine.

Which leads me to wonder if Halo 2 vista's editing software could help us understand the collision scince it has the ability to make custom bsp's. This may lead to when we tried to put H2V it was buggy.

Post by **grimdoomer** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:56 pm

Hmmm, this is getting me excited..... New research app time

CrysisFX · Post by **CrysisFX** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:00 pm

Personally im about to go get my H2V dvd and install it again. maybe try to mess around with transfering thing beween the 2 maps.

im trying to remember, but i think the map structures are slightly different so im going to try to move some stuff around in a hex editor.

Ohh the tediousness

ogrish · Post by **ogrish** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:07 pm

Ive moved the coods in Entity, and i get the same problems as when i extract, edit and inject. (a hole) Curently Entity and every other app dosnt read sbsp completly. If we understood bsp completly zodia could make a complete plugin.

Maybe vista holds the key, but i dont think phomo, works the same in vista.

Good luck on your research, hope you find somthing helpful.

When we do conversions (h2core) it rebuilds bsp, to bad we cant edit bsp then just rebuild it the way we want.

NotZachary82 · Post by **NotZachary82** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:39 pm

CrysisFX wrote:I belive a while back there was one on coag as well, involed a hole in the middle of it.

wake island?

Eaton · Post by **Eaton** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:41 pm

I thought Wake Island was just on top of Coagulation...

NotZachary82 · Post by **NotZachary82** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:46 pm

ya, but it could be the coagulation with a hole in the middle. >_<

SkgSkrillaka · Post by **SkgSkrillaka** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:41 pm

This is possibly true

Was it it team acemods who had completed the wake island mod or 3volution?

They could possibly have some answers for you, CrysisFX

kornman00 · Post by **kornman00** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:08 am

Uhm, sorry to burst your bubble, but justmodifying the collision model of the BSP won't do the trick. You must also update the physics model data for the bsp and it's embedded static scenery (in some cases). None of you are going to be able to do that ANY time soon with access to the iteration source of havok that Bungie used for Halo 2...

CrysisFX · Post by **CrysisFX** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:05 am

kornman00 wrote:Uhm, sorry to burst your bubble, but justmodifying the collision model of the BSP won't do the trick. You must also update the physics model data for the bsp and it's embedded static scenery (in some cases). None of you are going to be able to do that ANY time soon with access to the iteration source of havok that Bungie used for Halo 2...

Ok, i think i get what youre saying. so what if we were to do a bsp edit to a bsp like Shared.map?

neodos · Post by **neodos** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:32 am

I already tried, i edited the coll on the meta, 4 vertex and one plane and also extracted the models from the raw to edit it exactly as coll but the physic coll won't work when i move one plane, i don't know why, maybe there is something else to edit that we don't know about or we need havok tools.

CrysisFX · Post by **CrysisFX** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:50 am

kornman00 wrote:Uhm, sorry to burst your bubble, but justmodifying the collision model of the BSP won't do the trick. You must also update the physics model data for the bsp and it's embedded static scenery (in some cases). None of you are going to be able to do that ANY time soon with access to the iteration source of havok that Bungie used for Halo 2...

Open Source halo 2 anyone? :p

kornman00 · Post by **kornman00** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:36 am

neodos wrote:i don't know why, maybe there is something else to edit that we don't know about or we need havok tools.

The collision model is used for projectile hit detection, among other things. The physics model is used for defining where an object can land, drive, etc, so of course just changing the collision won't have an affect on the actual physical representation of the world. You would have to recalculate data using algorithms that are private to Havok, but accessible using interfaces in their SDK. Unless of course you got a special license for complete source code of their SDK, but the cost of that is far greater than probably this community's piggy banks combined. I don't know, maybe some of you are sitting on a gold mine but due to you're age, can't cash in on it ;p. So I HIGHLY doubt you will ever see any of the program makers ever conjure up something to edit the physics model of a bsp\object without some kind of "third party help"...

neodos · Post by **neodos** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:50 am

Havok is going to be public in may, however when i only edited coll, so logicaly for projectiles collision the physics collision disapeared on the planes that i edited, how do you explain that?
That coll on the meta is not only for projectiles or if you modify coll you may need to recalculate all.

And i know the difference between coll and phmo, thanks, if you know that much thank you for sharing knowledge:
http://forums.remnantmods.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=523

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