Iraq Topic

[Tural]

its called freedom of speech, So I would very much appreciate it, If you do not tell me that I am not in a position to say that

You clearly said I should not make that comment on the grounds that it restricts your freedom of speech. I did not make up the battle. Your comment directly says it. So now I laugh at your attempt to shift blame on to me for instigating that issue. Ha.

Now, to say that every military personnel shares that view is absurd. I known several people with plans to go into military service in the Middle East this coming year, and they are very proud to be fighting for their country. You're honestly attempting to make the claim that every soldier says it's a war without a purpose. It's just ridiculous.

[Trulife8342]

Ok, You are correct on 2 grounds, I should have said please , sorry pumpkin, And your right not EVERY soldier wants out of Iraq, and You should be proud that your friends would want to go and fight, And yes my friends or military persl. do share those views with me. On the same token, not every soldier wants to be there, its all a matter of perspective my friend.

[Tural]

Disagreeing with a reason is completely different from saying it doesn't exist. You said the war has no reason. Flat-out, you said it. You probably meant to state that many people, including many in the military, do not agree with the reasoning for the conflict. The reason is clear, we are allegedly fighting terrorism and terroristic ideals. However, you failed to clearly convey that message, and therefore left it entirely up the reader's interpretation. I exploited that.

[Trulife8342]

You sneaky snake you, No in all seriousness I do have to give you the reason in this discussion, You are right, The purpose to fight is to destroy terrorism which is great, But they way we are doing it is just, I dont know, Not right. its not what we are doing so much as how we are doing it.

[shadowkhas]

I think trulife was saying that one thing that soldiers DO fight for is our Constitution, and they joined the military simply to serve the country, regardless whether the battlefield is Iraq, Croatia, or any other American military station.
EDIT: Nevermind, guess I didn't get it much either.

Also, my argument, to people who say that this war wasn't even slightly influenced by Iraq's oil reserves...you don't need to control the pipelines to make money. Our simple presence has drives up the cost of a barrel of oil, and refining companies have used that to drive up the price of refined oil (gasoline in cars, for example) way too much in proportion.
Come on...I still remember being a young kid, and seeing gas at $1.20 a gallon...I don't think that around two dollars' growth has been normal. But then again, I'm not too in-depth on economics. If someone wants to show me some facts that that kind of growth is in fact within normal economic standards, I'd be happy to see it.

[Danke]

As a general statement, I don't support people who kill other people for a living. Of course I realize the varying circumstances that would make a person end up joining the military, and so I sympathize with the people who would rather not do it, but there are plenty of people in the military who not only want to be in it, but "enjoy what they do." If you take pleasure in blowing anyone's brains out, then I can't say I support you, and to hell with your yellow ribbon nonsense.

Here's a question I just thought of just now:
Why in the jesus christ does Bush even want to stay in Iraq? Seriously, why?

[newbymodder]

911 or as i call it " the awaking " showed Americans we are not in total control our simple little world can be shattered and there are people out there who are still communistic and hate us for being us. it was a bad thing that happened but at the same time a thing that needed to happen to wake up the ignorant people of this country. i agree with attacking them back, i have no doubt they had weapons of mass destruction that are now in " i think im not 100% sure " Serbia but we can't go over there and look. i agree weve been there too long but now i see we have a new reason for being there. Iran, you can't just leave the border of a country that is nuclear and the president of that country has said he wants to " abolish the holy land " every NATO force would be there to defend the holy land as done in past times. the war with Iraq can and will never be resolved there are to many radical groups of people that want power the only way you could stop this is to have a mass destruction of a whole generation of a people aka another holocaust. which we can not do. in total i supported the war but not how long we have stayed until i had read about these new " well old now " developments with Iran now i see we can't leave for if we do say bye bye to the holy land the only thing in between Iran and it the holy land is a desert full of chaotic order. this is my opinion on the subject

[Danke]

a thing that needed to happen to wake up the ignorant people of this country.

...
Just no.
No.

i agree with attacking them back, i have no doubt they had weapons of mass destruction

Wait, what the jesus are you talking about. I thought we were way past this. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, end of story.

that are now in " i think im not 100% sure " Serbia but we can't go over there and look.

The general consensus is that Iraq did not have WMD's.

i agree weve been there too long but now i see we have a new reason for being there. Iran, you can't just leave the border of a country that is nuclear and the president of that country has said he wants to " abolish the holy land " every NATO force would be there to defend the holy land as done in past times.

Jesus H. Christ, you really are just insane. Not liking a bordering country is not a reason to occupy another.

the war with Iraq can and will never be resolved there are to many radical groups of people that want power the only way you could stop this is to have a mass destruction of a whole generation of a people aka another holocaust. which we can not do.

Also, would not, should not, and will not.

in total i supported the war but not how long we have stayed until i had read about these new " well old now " developments with Iran now i see we can't leave for if we do say bye bye to the holy land the only thing in between Iran and it the holy land is a desert full of chaotic order. this is my opinion on the subject

Iran has nuclear capabilities. Israel has nukes, they can protect themselves, and it shouldn't be the US's business. It's not the "holy land" to everyone, and shouldn't be backed by the US simply because of religion. Territorial squabbles between two religious groups shouldn't concern the US, considering outright genocide elsewhere goes unchecked by us anyway.

[Tural]

It's not the "holy land" to everyone, and shouldn't be backed by the US simply because of religion. Territorial squabbles between two religious groups shouldn't concern the US, considering outright genocide elsewhere goes unchecked by us anyway.

I overwhelmingly agree with these comments.

[shadowkhas]

i have no doubt they had weapons of mass destruction that are now in " i think im not 100% sure " Serbia

Sup guys, how's new president Clinton doing?

but we can't go over there and look.

I don't see why not. The US military still keeps the peace in that region.

the president of that country has said he wants to " abolish the holy land " every NATO force would be there to defend the holy land as done in past times.

Do you know what the point of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization is? To check the former Warsaw Pact. Not the Middle East.

[Trulife8342]

Pretty much, Tural, Dan, Shadow, And myself are pretty much right and are all saying the same thing to an extent, Yes we should have done something, but it shouldnt have been what we done.

[Danke]

Not really. I think we should have left Iraq alone. UN sanctions were never going to happen anyways. The most the UN does any more is say "hey don't do that!" and "you shouldn't have done that!"

[WaywornMmmmm]

We 'won' the 'war', let's leave.

[Danke]

Mission Accomplished is different from Mission Complete

Haven't you ever played Starfox?

[shadowkhas]

Mission Accomplished meant you did the extra goals in the level, I don't see any extra goals here. His point is that since the President himself stood in front of a banner that said "MISSIONU ACCOMPRISHEDU," we should've been gone.

[Sarb]

I love this video regarding I-rack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw2nkoGLhrE

[Prey]

Er.. Thesaurus

[noxiousraccoon]

How old do you think we are? Seriously? Most of us were toddlers when it happened, some not even born.

Your age at the time period shouldnt matter. If your going to get involved in a discussion then you should know what your talking about.

Bullllllllllpoop. Just because there were reasons doesn't mean the war was inevitable. We went to war over WMD's. It's not as though a few months later someone would go "OH GUYS! Remember all this stuff that happened in 1991? Let's go to war now!"

This war was the final decision made by our government to end a leader of a country who has been a problem for 20 years. WMDs had nothing to do with this war. Government isnt a kids game, leave your bullpoop on the playground.

If the public didn't have any reason to support the war, it wouldn't have happened. I'd like to think we have at least a small influence on Congress and that they'd piss their pants thinking about their next election that they wouldn't pay for it. And for crying out loud, nobody cares about the Kurds. I'd hate to say it, but we wouldn't go to war with Iraq over people bagillions of miles away who died more than a decade ago. And if he had gone to war with Israel, we probably would back Israel up, but he didn't and I can't imagine that he would without at least support from other neighboring countries, because he would get his ass kicked and he knew it.

Since when does public opinion have any effect on America's foreign policy? Saddam killed more than just the Kurds. Does your carelessness effect your opinion of this war? Yea, we would have backed up Israel, we would protect our "investment". Granted, he would have got his ass kicked, but when did he ever make a good decision during his reign?

I don't see how UN inspectors who don't find anything would aid the cause for war.

The UN inspectors was merely an attempt that our government agreed upon to have some form of non-military action to resolve the issue. Ultimatly, leaving war the final decision to solve the issue. How does this effect politics? To show the people that non-military tactics have not worked and now the only way to get what we want, and yes I said what we want, is to go to war.

It's not stealing, per se. But Halliburton and others have plenty of say in their affairs (and in numerous other countries). Oil companies even hire "contractors," basically soldiers who have finished their tour in Iraq, to go back and protect their interests. We aren't just plain stealing it, but I don't think Iraq is making much of a profit off the oil.

So your point is, because companies are stealing the oil, its our governments fault? I understand the scandal between our government and Haliburton, but its not our governments fault that people are stealing the Iraq's oil.

[-Treetoad-]

I have read every word in this thread and I have to say that my opinion has been changed multiple times. Some say it was necessary to go to war while some beg to differ. Here is my opinion though. We really didn't have any good choices. It was either not go to war and leave America scared or go to war and leave America disappointed. Of course, at the moment, this is probably not what they thought, so they took what seemed to be the best option. Either way, Bush was screwed. I agree 100% that there could have been a much better plan, but under the pressure of having an entire nation depending on you, it's not as easy.

My next concern is that so many Americans are being left on "patrol". This is only my opinion, but maybe the reason they are still in there is because the government does not have a good basis to convince everyone that there has been a reason they have been there so long in the first place. There is no purpose of leaving our soldiers on hold in a foreign nation, but by bringing them back here, it will bring up people's attention as to why they have been there so long.

[Danke]

Your age at the time period shouldnt matter. If your going to get involved in a discussion then you should know what your talking about.

I was pointing out that none of us could "remember" that.

This war was the final decision made by our government to end a leader of a country who has been a problem for 20 years. WMDs had nothing to do with this war.

WMDs were the justification. You can't push propaganda out of the way because it's propaganda. Without the public's reaction to it, there would be no war. The administration would not have enough power (money, etc) to start a war of this scale without the public approval he got from the WMD case.

Since when does public opinion have any effect on America's foreign policy?

ca. 1781.

Saddam killed more than just the Kurds.

Doesn't make US citizens care more. My "carelessness" is realism. The general population "cares" but not enough to push for any action.

Yea, we would have backed up Israel, we would protect our "investment". Granted, he would have got his ass kicked, but when did he ever make a good decision during his reign?

My comment stands. Israel and every other country in the area shot missiles at each other at some point or another. Iraq and Israel and a fair number of other middle eastern countries have bombed each other and broken UN resolutions whatever you like to call them. Not to mention, if Iraq had invaded Israel and the US did go to war, it would be an entirely different situation than it is now.

So your point is, because companies are stealing the oil, its our governments fault? I understand the scandal between our government and Haliburton, but its not our governments fault that people are stealing the Iraq's oil.

It is if they are facilitating it, which they certainly are. Foreign contractors do not need to be part of the rebuilding process in regards to the handling of vital parts of Iraq's infrastructure, especially when it benefits people who are choosing the contractors.