Email to Bungie

[Crowbar Jack]

i apoligized for calling u guys a$$holes earlier after Tural called me a flamer so..ya and btw i was reffering to a particualar group of people
so i really dont see a problem here. i called a select few, aholes because they were negative, i may have been harsh.. if i was, once again i apoligize..i shouldve called you.. pesimistic well anyway sorry if i casued an uprising .. i was in a bad mood too because no one would answer my topic sooo

[[users]jlddodger]

For those of you quoting Bungie policy. Please understand that in most instances this is legal mumbo-jumbo. We all recognize that we can can be banned. The question being raised is why Bungie would even care to ban those who mod in non-competitive games. It is not so much what is the policy, but why is that the policy.

[[users]platesofpaper]

Because they have more important things to do (Halo 3, anyone?) than to monitor whether or not people modded in matchmaking. Do you realize how much time that would take?

[WaywornMmmmm]

For those of you quoting Bungie policy. Please understand that in most instances this is legal mumbo-jumbo. We all recognize that we can can be banned. The question being raised is why Bungie would even care to ban those who mod in non-competitive games. It is not so much what is the policy, but why is that the policy.

XBL CoC. (Thats xbox live code of conduct for slow people.)

[srchrisknight]

hey they will never allow modding, or except modders. they legaly can't, inorfer to have a valid copywrite, they cannot allw reverse enginering. and legaly they can sue u for doing it on live. i was kicked for playing in a custom game b4 i knew about xbox connect. i don't think they hate modders, but i do not think they are willing to spend the time and money to keep them out of the competitave games, they would have to re arange there entire xbl system. but in halo3 they might make room for it, they did for the original halo pc

[[users]jlddodger]

XBL CoC. (Thats xbox live code of conduct for slow people.)

As I said, I recognize that this is policy... i.e. xbox live code of conduct (That's XBL CoC for people who like to make up abbreviations). But the question is why bungie doesn't allow approved cheats/mods, because there is provision for that in the Xbox Live Code of Conduct.

Don't cheat in a game unless cheats have been deliberately enabled.

I am just saying that a community-based evolving content system for Halo 2/Halo 3 would boost the games' longevity and bring even more people into Halo gaming. Not to mention it would be more fun. This is all with the provision that the mods would be "fair" so to speak, and not destroy gameplay. But a content review system would solve that.

Think FarCry. That was a great map editor.

[Crowbar Jack]

i agree with srchrisknight.. i hope that they make room for custom games mods..as highly unlikely as that sounds i belive that it is in the near-future. .however, the modding community is making a rise. i dont think ive ever seen so many modders, if our whole site went on xbl..bungie would simply die. they wouldnt be able to control the banning, i myself have inspired about 3-4 ppl to start modding..as much as bungie does not like the modders out ther.bungie will soon have to adapt because i wonder how many people tjc2k4 has inspired or swamp fox or any other 1337 modder out there "if you cant beat'em join'em"

and the Farcry thing.. i think thats a very good idea.. think about it Halo3CE i think that would be great maybe they will do that. remember it only illegal if bungie says so(right?) if bungie says that reverse engineering is considered okay in custom games then there would be no problem. i think bungie should think more bussiness like too because i know that most people on Halomods do not have xbl..they prefer xbc or x-link kai that stuff why: because modders are allowed. i think that if bungie allowed modders in custom games then it would make more money thatn ever. Ther is currently 26,811 users on Halo-mods now assume none of them have xbl,only xbc, now next day bungie allows modders in about 26,000 people will buy 3 moth trials or even the 12-month without thinking about it u do the math a 12-month is 50-60$ a 3 month starter kit is 40-50$, lets split it half and half 13,000 bys 3-month other 13,000 buys 12 month. i get 585,000 for the 3-month (multilied it by 45$) then i get 715,000 for the 12-month buyers.. altogether 1.3 million dollars s,hit i dont think thats profitable

[Tural]

To mod on Live, you would have to not only change Bungie's Terms of Use, but also that of the entire Xbox Live service. Good luck. Modding on Live is bad, fucking deal with it.

[Scoliosis]

k im gonna ask a question that still needs answering

why is this still being argued?

who cares. modding on live will never happen. So lets drop this. This topic in it self is wasting precious kilobites of data on the internet.

[[users]jlddodger]

I respectfully disagree. Modding is already happening on live. I will once again mention the FarCry content distribution system. Keep in mind that it won't be as fully open as what we have now, but I would be surprised if there wasn't some kind of system in the works for Halo 3 already.

And Tural, I don't buy that the changes to Live would be that drastic. Once again, DLC is already built into Live. And games (dare I say FarCry again) already have this type of editing availability.

*edit: sorry Tural, I read your post again. The above is not directed at your concern. As to your concern, policy is just policy. It can be changed, and I doubt that it is that difficult. I have read the Xbox Live Code of Conduct, and I agree that one line would need to be changed.

Don't modify or hack game content to create cheats.

But the term "hack" implies that one is attempting to manipulate the system in way that it is not meant to manipulated. Given the context of the code of conduct I believe that the Merriam-Webster dictionary's closest definition for hack is

to gain access to a computer illegally

If the issue is the illegality (or that it is against the policy), then the statement loops back on itself saying basically "don't violate the code of conduct".

Consider this: all you would need to add is a content server system. Upload your map to an approved server, it is automatically hosted for say two-weeks. Then, it appears in content listings on live. If people play and don't like it they can rate it (like the current feedback system), if your map isn't played enough, or if the feedback is low, then the map is removed from the server.

In fact, here's one better. Instead of hosting maps... host patches. The DLC system will download the patch, and Halo 3 can patch the map and add it to the main menu on its own. No worries. This would protect any proprietary data that Bungie might have and would greaty reduce the strain on server space.

Modding may never happen for Halo 2 or Halo 3, but to make the blanket comment that "modding on live will never happen" is just erroneous, and no reason why this cannot be discussed in these forums. If you are really concerned about it, ask a moderator to move this to the cafe or something.

p.s. I am not some crack-pot who wants to cheat on Live. This is an oppotunity for Bungie to make Halo a permenant name in the gaming community. Modders should want this.

[Scoliosis]

i dont think the comment "modding on live will never happen" is erroneous. Microsoft and bungie used halo 2 to find modders. If they went though all that trouble to use one game to catch all modders that went on live, why would they come out later on down the road and say "lets be friends, you can mod on live, you can violate EVERY copywrite law in place for these games." now think about this: will microsoft and bungie allow any way for halo 3, their consol or any other game at that, to be modded? i assure you, those 2 companies did the BEST to ensure that modders could be stopped. thats why modding on live will never happen. lol and then think of the reprocussions. If bungie has terms of use that say you cannot mod the game and microsoft goes and allows modders on xbl...can anyone say lawsuit?

[[users]jlddodger]

Oh, I freely admit that Bungie and Microsoft will want to protect their content. I admit that modding might not be the same, but Prometheus already works on the principles of protecting Bungie's content. Copyright laws aren't infringed by my idea, in fact they are protected. Users need not share Bungie's content to make this work. Once again, true patching would avoid the need to move Bungie's content anywhere.

Bungie and Microsoft went after modders because the modders were destroying the quality of gameplay. The difference is infrastructure: mods would only be played when the quality of play was fair and entertaining. If mods failed to do this they could be dismissed.

And one more time, we are talking about policy here. Policies can be changed, Xbox Live Enabled game developers agree to the established Code of Conduct not the other way around (at least this makes the most sense to me), so if Microsoft changed the policy I imagine that most companies couldn't do much about it (or more likely wouldn't care), but this in theory would be a joint Bungie and Microsoft endeavor. Come to think of it the Code of Conduct wouldn't need to be changed at all. If the functionality for modding is built into the game (say Halo 3), then it is not hacking to create cheats, so much as editing to create new content.

Bungie and Microsoft would have nothing to lose if the proper infrastructure was created. Copyrighted material could be protected, quality of gameplay could be ensured, and Bungie and Microsoft would increase there potential audience. Keep in mind that the idea would be to run the content system through Xbox Live. This means that people would have even greater motivating factors to continue paying for Live service.

No one said anything about allowing the modding of Xbox's. All this can be done without modding xbox's, as Microsoft/Bungie could simply build the functionality into the provided XBE. No hacking required.

And I doubt that lawsuits would occur in the direction of Bungie suing Microsoft. The other way perhaps; but lets face it, Microsoft is screwed on far more tight Bungie. Besides, as I keep saying, it's in their own interest.

[Tural]

To mod on Live, you would have to not only change Bungie's Terms of Use, but also that of the entire Xbox Live service. Good luck. Modding on Live is bad, **** deal with it.

Stop talking about the Live modding, face facts, it won't be happening with Microsoft and Bungie's consent, period. End of story.

[Scoliosis]

Stop talking about the Live modding, face facts, it won't be happening with Microsoft and Bungie's consent, period. End of story.

thank you tural. You have finally ended this dead end idea of modded content on live. You are my friend for life lol.

[[users]jlddodger]

You need only open your mind.