HOLY CRAP.

[rossmum]

Just watching 60 Minutes, they had a feature on the battle of Framelle in WWI. Very, very few people outside the actual village even knew about it until now, but here goes:

Back in 1916, some idiot of a British commander ordered Australian troops to cross open fields and try take German machine gun nests, so as to divert the Germans from Poziers. Needless to say it ended in slaughter, with over 5000 of our guys killed, BUT, here's the most shocking part.

Adolf Hitler was in one of those bunkers, and very nearly died.

If those diggers had got into the bunker, the world would be one hell of a different place. No Holocaust. No Israel because there'd be no reason to leave. None of the stuff that WW2 in Europe spawned. Who knows, maybe Stalin would've done something instead like in Red Alert, but... wow.

Thoughts?

[RaVNzCRoFT]

Being a Jew, I'd have to say I wish your soldiers didn't suck so much.

[maca_§]

If you said that in person I would slap/murder you, Ravnz. Sorry

I don't like the British commander's orders (back then) :/.
They kinda end up with a lot of Aussie deaths..

[jks]

lol, it seems they only thought the aussies were good for cannon fodder. But look at what they bring us today!... um.... hmmm.... well the olympics, but thats not technically yours... that thing on the water that looks like a porcupine.... and Outback steakhouse of course. <3

[V0Lt4Ge]

It's amazing how such a small thing can lead to such a large one.

One person not dieing caused millions more to die. Sad.

[Cuda]

lol Me and Rossmum Broke this down on this same Subject Last night/early Morning.

[03:13:09 AM] (8)I come fr: just learned something very, very
interesting
[03:13:26 AM] (8)I come fr: in 1916, at fromelles in france, we lost
something like 5200 soldiers to some stupid pom
diversion... they got our guys to charge across an open
field at german machine gun nests
[03:13:41 AM] (8)I come fr: a few guys were lucky and made it to the
first german line
[03:13:52 AM] (8)I come fr: if theyd got a few metres further
[03:14:19 AM] (8)I come fr: they wouldve been at the bunker where
adolf hitler was fighting for his life
[03:14:38 AM] (8)I come fr: australian soldiers came so close to
changing the world as we know it its not funny
[03:15:01 AM] (8)I come fr: yet that battle has never been mentioned
here until 60 minutes tonight
[03:15:02 AM] (8)I come fr: >_>
[04:53:03 AM] Cuda: lol
[04:53:04 AM] Cuda: k
[04:53:19 AM] Cuda: what about the unsucsesful attack at the
Dardanelles?
[04:53:37 AM] Cuda: you might get your one, but theres others that
conflict it
[04:53:47 AM] (8)I come fr: yeah, but gallipoli was nothing compared
to this
[04:54:02 AM] Cuda: If the Poms and French Just Lost, we wouldnt have
that problem
[04:54:15 AM] (8)I come fr: then everything would be fucked.
[04:54:18 AM] Cuda: No Communist Uprising
[04:54:21 AM] Cuda: No Cold War
[04:54:26 AM] Cuda: No Holocaust
[04:54:28 AM] Cuda: No Stalin
[04:54:36 AM] Cuda: No Nuclear Arms Race
[04:54:48 AM] Cuda: No Yarkov Smirnov and his Soviet Russia Jokes
[04:55:22 AM] (8)I come fr: ms paint ftw
[04:55:26 AM] Cuda: k
[04:55:41 AM] Cuda: but If the Germans advanced 40 Miles at the Somme,
[04:55:46 AM] You have successfully received C:\Documents and
Settings\Cuda\My Documents\My Received Files\leet nam
guy..jpg from (8)I come from the land of the ice and
snow, of the midnight sun, where the hot springs
blow...(8) - Led Zeppelin = total win..
[04:55:47 AM] Cuda: they'd be in Paris
[04:56:03 AM] Cuda: the war woulda been different
[04:56:07 AM] Cuda: wayy different
[04:56:33 AM] Cuda: know what Im saying?
[04:56:38 AM] (8)I come fr: yeah
[04:56:50 AM] Cuda: Thanks to the stupid commonwealth, none of that
shit woulda happend either
[04:57:01 AM] Cuda: Hitler wouldnt have gone psycho
[04:57:24 AM] Cuda: or when he did, he'd have no grounds of arguement
and all the Germans would think he's nuts
[04:57:37 AM] Cuda: So basicly, The French and the Poms caused the
Holocaust
[04:57:46 AM] Cuda: Deeeeep down in
[04:58:00 AM] (8)I come fr: technically no.
[04:58:12 AM] Cuda: If the Treaty of Versailles didnt tie their arms
behind their back, Hitler would have no gfrounds of
arguement
[04:58:21 AM] (8)I come fr: one stray bullet couldve stopped it and
caused stalin to do it instead
[04:58:33 AM] Cuda: There would be no Communist Uprising
[04:58:38 AM] (8)I come fr: so technically you cant say they started
it
[04:59:00 AM] Cuda: If there was no War, and the Schliefen Plan
worked, no commies
[04:59:15 AM] Cuda: russia would be German
[04:59:23 AM] Cuda: Right?
[04:59:34 AM] Cuda: Then the Germans would Spread their posterity
[04:59:39 AM] Cuda: and snuff the communists
[04:59:54 AM] (8)I come fr: meh
[04:59:57 AM] Cuda: wait
[05:00:00 AM] Cuda: Better yet
[05:00:06 AM] Cuda: Its that one guy's fault
[05:00:14 AM] Cuda: The Guy that shot Franz Ferdinand
[05:00:26 AM] Cuda: and his Serbian Anarchists
[05:00:29 AM] (8)I come fr: yeah
[05:00:41 AM] (8)I come fr: he fucked europe up bad.
[05:00:47 AM] Cuda: but then, you'd have to blame the governments in
the Balkans
[05:01:04 AM] Cuda: no Balkan conflict=no Anarchist movement in the
region
[05:01:20 AM] Cuda: and who do we blame for the issues in the
Balkans?
[05:01:26 AM] Cuda: George W. Bush
[05:01:47 AM] (8)I come fr: yep
[05:01:50 AM] (8)I come fr: XD
[05:02:13 AM] Cuda: but who spurred the issues in the Balkans then?
[05:02:20 AM] Cuda: other than George Bush
[05:02:48 AM] Cuda: The Failure and Inner corruption of the Ottoman
Empire
[05:02:56 AM] (8)I come fr: yep
[05:03:00 AM] (8)I come fr: so its all the turks fault.
[05:03:01 AM] (8)I come fr: woot
[05:03:05 AM] Cuda: Who do we Blame for that?
[05:03:05 AM] (8)I come fr: laying blame is so fun
[05:03:12 AM] Cuda: Money?
[05:03:22 AM] Cuda: The Byzantian Curse?
[05:03:28 AM] Cuda: The Roman Empire?
[05:03:36 AM] Cuda: The Greeks?
[05:03:40 AM] (8)I come fr: you?
[05:03:42 AM] Cuda: Wait Scratch that
[05:03:53 AM] Cuda: The Barbarians
[05:03:54 AM] Cuda: No
[05:03:56 AM] Cuda: Shit
[05:04:00 AM] Cuda: Im all scrambled
[05:04:06 AM] (8)I come fr: lol
[05:04:08 AM] Cuda: Should go
[05:05:02 AM] Cuda: Barbarians
Byzantines
Emperor Constantine for splitting the Empire
The Roman Empire
The Greeks and Phoenicians for finding the Italian
Peninsula
[05:05:11 AM] (8)I come fr: lol
[05:05:29 AM] Cuda: Mesopotamian Peoples Drifing accross the Middle
East
[05:05:37 AM] Cuda: Lucy in the Great Rift Valley
[05:05:43 AM] Cuda: the Austrolapithicus
[05:05:49 AM] Cuda: Win
[05:05:53 AM] Cuda: THeres the Balme
[05:06:02 AM] Cuda: The Culprit?
[05:06:05 AM] Cuda: Humans
[05:06:15 AM] Cuda: and Human Nature
[05:06:18 AM] (8)I come fr: lol
[05:06:38 AM] Cuda: that caused the Holocaust, World War 1/2, and the
Cold War
[05:06:48 AM] Cuda: DAMN YOU HUMAN NATURE!!!

[Doctor]

Being a Jew, I'd have to say I wish your soldiers didn't suck so much.

It could have been heavily fortified. You try marching across an empty field with German machine guns shooting back at you. (not that I have...) They also weren't dilebartly aiming for Hitler, because they certaintly didn't know what he was going to do.

But I'm a Jew aswell, and I speek for everyone when I say we would've been much better off with Hitler dead.

[noxiousraccoon]

[04:54:18 AM] Cuda: No Communist Uprising

I seriously doubt that. "Communist Manifesto" Communism was inevitable. Which, Jews in germany supported Karl Marx and his thoughts.

[05:01:20 AM] Cuda: and who do we blame for the issues in the
Balkans?
[05:01:26 AM] Cuda: George W. Bush

I would like to hear more on this, if you have the time.

[Cuda]

lol, I knew sooner or Later that would come up. I was awake playing BF2, and I started Windin g down, and left when stuff started getting blurry, so He just MSNed me this, and struck up conversation.

[04:54:18 AM] Cuda: No Communist Uprising

I seriously doubt that. "Communist Manifesto" Communism was inevitable. Which, Jews in germany supported Karl Marx and his thoughts.

If The Russians were defeated, the Germans would have spread Posterity and wealth all accross Russia. The Communist Revolution was Started Midway through the War when Food became scarce during the winter time. IF THe Schliefen Plan worked, and Germany could knock out Russia, that woulda been averted.

[05:01:20 AM] Cuda: and who do we blame for the issues in the
Balkans?
[05:01:26 AM] Cuda: George W. Bush

I would like to hear more on this, if you have the time.

Dude, It was a Joke. It seemed so right to say it, seeing how most Americans today Blame Bush for every Single problem in America.

[RaVNzCRoFT]

Spam posts split, and moved back to the Cafe. Spam this topic again and it will receive a swift lockdown.

[Danke]

Man, I bet WW2 would've been much better if the US was originally a country sized prison too! =(

Considering the effects of timetravel etc etc, I'm not sure Hitler dying would be a good thing. I mean, if a break in the time-space continuum doesn't erase us first, we might not be born. Or maybe be born under the rule of the horrible dictatorship of Robot Stalin. It's just not worth the risk. Might as well kill Columbus too while we're at it.

Spam posts split, and moved back to the Cafe. Spam this topic again and it will receive a swift lockdown.

Isn't that going to happen anyway?

[RaVNzCRoFT]

Spam posts split, and moved back to the Cafe. Spam this topic again and it will receive a swift lockdown.

Isn't that going to happen anyway?

[JK-47]

Not "spamming"

I don't really find this that interesting, Hitler is dead, nightmare over, lets move onto the next one.

Either way, he would be dead, if in fact we did get him, we probably would have sucked him dry of questions and killed him. Were probably going to do the same with Saddam.

[noxiousraccoon]

If The Russians were defeated, the Germans would have spread Posterity and wealth all accross Russia. The Communist Revolution was Started Midway through the War when Food became scarce during the winter time. IF THe Schliefen Plan worked, and Germany could knock out Russia, that woulda been averted.

I agree with that. But it could have eliminated it at that time, but in my opinion communism would still have gained strength. Communist Manifesto was created mid-way through the 1800s. If Germany won, in my opinion communism would just have been stalled.

Dude, It was a Joke. It seemed so right to say it, seeing how most Americans today Blame Bush for every Single problem in America.

Indeed

[rossmum]

I don't like the idea of history changing. I know it was terrible, but imagine what you could get instead. You just can't tell. It's best to leave the past... in the past.

My paternal grandfather was a Jew, he fought at Normandy as a Sargeant in the Canadian Army, got shot in the chest pocket by a German sniper but his watch stopped the bullet >_> but anyways, for those of you who are familiar with the storyline of Red Alert... think on that for a moment.

And Ravnz, you're talking about the army with one of the best special forces on the planet, who didn't falter in WW1 despite massive losses at the hand of incompetent British commanders, who fought with spectacular success in WW2 (held off the Germans at Tobruk, and achieved the first land victory against Japan when they drove a whole Japanese army into the sea in PNG, my other grandfather was there), who fought alongside America in Korea and Vietnam... And as Cuda will tell you, I like to flag out Long Tan as an example. One of our bases detected signs of an impending NVA/VC attack and sent out 108 men through a rubber plantation to find them, where they found roughly 3500 Charlies armed to the teeth, in 10-foot visibility, and killed over 1000. We fired artillery shells to within 20 metres of our own men and didn't lose ANY to friendly fire, unlike the US who were more of concern to our troops in PNG than the Japs, and who can somehow manage to hit their own troops with artillery fire despite the target being miles away. We lost a whole 19 men, and the NVA commanders put out orders for their troops to avoid combat with Australian troops at all costs. Only man we've lost in Iraq was killed in a tragic accident.

Tell me our army sucks, go on.

[Infern0]

Your army sucks.

Actually, that would be a lie.

When I read that, I was thinking; Wow.

Just, wow.

Anyways, no army actually sucks. It's just that the opposing army is stronger and have better strategies in some cases.

[noxiousraccoon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Long_Tan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian ... on_of_Iraq

Australia had 7672 soldiers in Vietnam, and lost an average of 500. Basically for every 15 soldiers, one died. Therefor, if those numbers stayed the same and Australia had 500,000 troops in Vietnam as America did, then there total losses would have been around the 32,000 range. Its hard to say that Australia has a "good army" based on one battle, considering their involvement in the situation. Australia have been in major conflicts, but havent involved themselves dramatically. They had 2000 soldiers in the Iraq War. Which its true, only one casualty (wikipedia says 2, so I dont know). Though, since they have low troop numbers its hard to say that they have really had much of an impact/would aquire much troop casualties in the Iraq War/previous incidents. They have been referred to many times, "as joining other countries" "limited contribution" "joining US forces". They have had good success though. That battle of Long Tan is interesting (that is if, battles interest you).

[rossmum]

I heard about Long Tan from a few vets, so yeah. Still, 500 to 18 is one hell of a good ratio...

[RaVNzCRoFT]

And Ravnz, you're talking about the army with one of the best special forces on the planet, who didn't falter in WW1 despite massive losses at the hand of incompetent British commanders, who fought with spectacular success in WW2 (held off the Germans at Tobruk, and achieved the first land victory against Japan when they drove a whole Japanese army into the sea in PNG, my other grandfather was there), who fought alongside America in Korea and Vietnam... And as Cuda will tell you, I like to flag out Long Tan as an example. One of our bases detected signs of an impending NVA/VC attack and sent out 108 men through a rubber plantation to find them, where they found roughly 3500 Charlies armed to the teeth, in 10-foot visibility, and killed over 1000. We fired artillery shells to within 20 metres of our own men and didn't lose ANY to friendly fire, unlike the US who were more of concern to our troops in PNG than the Japs, and who can somehow manage to hit their own troops with artillery fire despite the target being miles away. We lost a whole 19 men, and the NVA commanders put out orders for their troops to avoid combat with Australian troops at all costs. Only man we've lost in Iraq was killed in a tragic accident.

Tell me our army sucks, go on.

Dude, you obviously didn't see the wink after my post where I said your army sucks. That entire statement was intended as a joke, and I was trying to say "I wish Hitler was killed in that battle." I know your army doesn't suck, and I'd never say it does. I'd be scared to hell to join the army. I'd respect anyone in the army, just for overcoming the fear of joining.

[rossmum]

At 11:30pm after a week of staying up past 5am, things tend to vanish from the screen