BSP Editing + Building an Airship

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:49 pm

[edit] This thread got off topic from the original bsp editing, so I added the airship thing to the title [end edit]

So, I extracted the collision of Containment into a nice, neat .obj. I then opened it with the collision editor and found a whole bunch of dots that represent the vertices of the map. Very nice. I raised the ceiling (very easy to do) then I decided I would like to move the invisible walls out a bit. There was a mod I saw where the whole thing took place on the rim around the level, the invisible wall was still there, but you were outside it now. Yeah, I thought it was lame, too.
So, I decided to extract the mesh to, 1) have a more visual reference to compare my editing to, and 2) maybe make similar edits to it as well (one possibility is lowering the ground or removing it entirely--I'm planning an aerial battle map). Whereas the collision was one nice, neat .obj, I found the mesh to be 49 .obj's that stubbornly refuse to open in 3dsmax. I'm not sure if the map is in 49 pieces or if it's in fewer pieces, with varying LOD's.
So, my question is, is there a way to conveniently edit the bsp? It's kind of ironic that editing a vehicle or weapon model is easy, but collision is impossible, while a map's collision is relatively easy, but the model isn't.
[edit] On a side note, I can't get ANY H2 models to open in 3dsmax, so if anyone knows how to fix that.... Also, I can ususally open about 4 or 5 parts in Milkshape before it crashes, but that only goes so far as a visual reference to work with. Also, if there are multiple LoD's, it would be ideal to open them all at once, so I can just grab them all and move them, instead of going back and trying to make the same changes to each one individually.

sundriedprawn · Post by **sundriedprawn** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:46 pm

try maya personal learing edition

Jimmy65 · Post by **Jimmy65** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:00 am

I can only get ADI outputs into max..... DM dosn't work for me.

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:41 am

Doh! Didn't even occur to me to try ADI. Can it extract the bsp? (That question is probably rhetorical, since I'll try it before I even check this thread again).
[edit] Um... so ADI doesn't seem to have an option to extract bsp. Guess I'm off to d/l maya.
[edit #2] I don't think I know how to import a wavefront .obj with maya...
[edit #3] Ok, so nevermind maya. My 'puter sucks at running it. Think I've found a solution anyway. I wasn't sure if all the vertices were going to be represented the same way in the different aps and from model to model. Well, happily, they are (experimented with opening the coll in Milkshape along with one or two pieces of the mesh at a time). So, I guess I can grab all the vertices below a certain level and lower them, and then go back and do the same to each individual part of the mesh. Tedious, but it should work.
Now, I have no clue how to set death barriers or banshee barriers (have to have a banshee barrier--otherwise you'd fly right through the death barrier--also want to raise the default one a bit) so if anyone can point me to some tuts or just tell me how it works, I'd greatly appreciate it.
[edit #4] Hey, did you know that if you change the player spawn and banshee spawn to be above the banshee barrier, then try to pilot the banshee, it'll blow up? Also, I moved the invis barriers out... well, I moved the 12 highest points out. I thought that would be all it'd take, but it turns out there's invis barriers at the edges of every cliff or whatever, so that if you spawn outside the level you can't get back in... Anybody know how to get rid of those, and the banshee barrier?

Jimmy65 · Post by **Jimmy65** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:21 pm

What I'm saying is that the max plugin doesn't accept darkmatter extracts, but it does if it's extracted with ADI.

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:27 pm

Right. But the only way I know to extract bsp is through dm. ADI doesn't seem to have that option (unless it's hidden somewhere and I missed it).

Snave · Post by **Snave** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:31 pm

Try right hemisphere, its a universal 3d/2d application that converts almost every single format out there.

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:41 pm

Hm... they said they'd evaluate my request and contact me. That sucks. Oh well, I think the collision editor and milkshape are doing alright for me.
So, anybody got any thoughts on banshee barriers and invisible walls?

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:48 pm

i dont think anyone has figured out the banshee barrier yet, as for the invisable walls there a pack of no-invisable wall ppfs out in the files forum now so 2 save time u could just use that

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:06 pm

Where's the fun in that? But yeah, that's what I'll do.
Well, if I can't raise the banshee barrier, maybe I can just lower everything else. I was gonna' lower most of it anyway. So I'll just try lowering the parts I was already gonna' even more and lower the rest a bit. That still leaves the problem of flying down into a death barrier. Hm... I guess I could make up some lame deathtrap or something that you'll be able to see (so no accidental deaths). That would even fit in with one of the other things I wanted to do. Any thoughts on the best way to make a death barrier visible? Some sort of radiation or whatever, but how to make it look? And how to actually do it?

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:52 pm

the radation idea is interesting i just depends on the theme of the mod or lava would b another thated b cool cause ur having a floating thing arent u?

edit: u could call it volcanic canyon

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:46 pm

Floating? I was planning on just using the high parts in containment. Well, I was actually starting to reconsider that after some experimentation: one of them is kind of long but not deep at all. That'd be kind of inconvenient for spawning a fleet of banshees on. (actually, I plan on having like 4 diff flying vehicles, but I'm having serious issues trying to create one of them).
Lava would be cool, I guess. The radiation actually came from an idea a friend of mine suggested. I was trying to figure out some way to keep people from camping at their own base: after all, that's where all their ships are going to be respawning, as well as their peeps. If they kept the fight close to it, they'd have an advantage, and camping wussies would be all about this tactic. The solution was to make a sort of screen with no collision that prevented you from seeing out from your base, but didn't prevent the other side from seeing in (basically 2 big poly's-one facing the base, semi-transparent but still a pain to try to see through effectively, and the other one facing away from the base, more transparent, so its easier to shoot through. Figured I'd call it radiation.

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:00 am

im sure theres better things u could call it like the "force field" or something casue radation doesnt look like that & hav u tested it yet cause im not sure it would work

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:35 am

I was gonna' call it a force field, but those are for NOT letting things through... this is for letting stuff through. Haven't tested it yet, but what is there that wouldn't work? Just a big poly with no collision. If you've done any messing with modeling, you know that only one side of a poly is visible, so I don't understand what it isthat would be a problem. Well, I don't know how to make things semi-transparent, but it can't be that hard, can it? I suppose the volcano thing could be cool, if there was a way to make a smokescreen you couldn't see through from one side... but that seems like it'd be harder than a radiation screen.

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:01 am

well hav u ever tried 2 make something with 2 sides invisable? i tried it on foundation so u could see-through the big post things but wen u looked at them u looked straight through the bsp like there was nothing behind them plus im not sure theres any transparent textures in h2(active camo isnt transparent) so it depends on weather u can find a shader thatll work

y would a smokesreen b harder thatn a radation screen its just a different color i think smoke is ur best bet i think fog is made of layers of shaders so u could u that and change the color 2 black

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:42 am

The idea is that if you camp at your base the other team has an easy shot at sniping you, while you can't see them. Fog would impare both sides' vision equally. The screen doesn't have to be part of the bsp: could just be a bloc or whatever. The semi-transparent part is a concern, though. Maybe the sword's shader would work? To make a screen of smoke/fog would probably look really cheesy (non-moving fog).
It all may be a moot point, however, since the central part of the whole map is an airship which I can't seem to get working. Is it impossible to make a flying scarab with full collision? Every attempt I've made just freezes the game. (actually, I'd prefer to just use the body of the scarab, leaving off the legs, but nobody seems to know how to do that--but I digress).
The more I think about it, though, the more I like the lava idea. Could make the map dark and have the lava be a light source. That would look cool. Maybe there would even be a way to have little mini eruptions--a bunch of orange colored plasma nades that damage you when they hit, but don't explode; just go away after a sec. It'd be a cool effect having a bunch of glowing lava stuck to the bottom of your banshee.
So what's a good way to make a lava effect? Not the eruption part, I mean like the big lake of lava or whatever. For the radiation (the floor, not the screens) I was just going to make a no collision floor and give it a needle shader or something. Lava sounds more complicated, but much cooler.
[Edit] Just thought of something. There was a mod for ascension--Mount Doom--that had kind of a lava effect. Honestly, I didn't like it that much, but it was a moving lava thing in the middle of ascension. I had thought a moving image on the screens wouldn't be possible, but apparently it worked in that case. Maybe the smoke screens would work after all. I'll have to look into that, or if anybody knows more, let me know, please.

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:44 am

i hav a really cool lava like image u could use then u would just need to sort out the light its on my other pc tho so ill upload it l8r

if u want it 2 move u might ba ble 2 change the color of a shader to give an illusion of movement

flying scarab hmm wat exactually were u planing 4 that, driver wise? as try giving a bashee a the model & coll of the scarb and move the seat

as 4 the legs u could reshape them 2 look more shipish like balancers or something

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:26 am

I want to put the driver seat below deck, so that, to kill the driver you would have to jump onto the airship, either from your own team's ship, or by jumping out of a banshee/landing a banshee on it. In the front of the cockpit there's a... not really a pillar, I guess, but you get the idea. I'd like to put the seat in front of that, again, for the pilot's safety. He could have teammates inside or up on deck trying to keep him safe, but if the enemy manages to get all the way inside, he could kill the pilot... which would cause the whole ship to fall into the lava, killing everyone on board. I plan on the ships being incredibly hard to take down, but not indestructible (as that would inspire camping wusses to hide below deck with rl's). You get the idea. As far as the legs, yeah, I could make them look different, I guess, but they'll still be in the way--the ship will occupy a much larger chunk of the sky with them still on, and it'll make the side by side ship battles less practical (plan on also giving the ships cannons on the sides, controlled by the pilot--powerful shots, but take a long time to reload) and I also wanted to have people able to jump from one ship to the other if they get close enough. Anyway, the first concern is just to make the stupid thing fly. For some reason, the game freezes if I try to give a ghost a scarab's hlmt. I made sure to spawn it high enough from the ground that it wouldn't be intersecting or anything. It's really starting to piss me off.
But yeah, back to the map. I'd like to see that lava image, but I'd really like to know how the Mount Doom mod was done. There was a lava looking image beneath Ascension, and also the ground in the middle looked like it... and it was moving.

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:33 pm

mayb if u insolenced the water shader from another map can changed the bitmap...

try just spawning a scarb on the map without any changes 2 see if it works

ill upload the image in 10mins
edit: http://pheonic.0moola.com/col.jpg

ull hav 2 make the scarabs move really slow

u might hav trouble getting the pilot controled turrets working ud be better 2 mak them other player controlled thatd b more realistic anyway

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:15 pm

Thanks for the image.
Yes, I plan on the scarabs being slow and not being able to barrel roll. (well, I'd probably leave it in for testing and cuz it'd be fun to dump everyone on deck, but I'd take it out before I finished the map

). I don't plan on the pilot controlling the turrets. There'll be 4; one on each corner, basically hog or creep turrets. I want to give the pilot some big honkin' sentinel beams that shoot straight out from the side, though. Who's gonna' want to be the pilot if they can't shoot or anything? It'd be cool if the right trigger fired the ones on the right side (like 3 of them, all along the side of the ship) and left trigger for left ones. With a full 60 seconds to recharge, it'd get all kinds of tense with the ships trying to come about and shoot eachother from their other sides. I also imagine people using tricks like pushing the ship with banshees to try to turn it faster for an advantage.
Well, I'm really off the subject of bsp editing now. Oh well. One more thought/question, if anybody has any ideas: how would I go about making it impossible to piggyback on a banshee? You know how people will have snipers or flag carriers stand on a banshee? That'd ruin the tactics of my map. I was thinking, if it were possible, (haven't done any research on it yet, though) I'd have some kind of extremely short range, always on weapon on the top, like a sentinel beam or something that would cook anyone trying to stand on it. Any thoughts?