Someone Find Proof H2 Mods Arent Illegal

ObLiTrAtE · Post by **ObLiTrAtE** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:05 am

My host won't believe me that ppfs arent illegal. I need some proof they arent illegal or ill get shut down. I even told them halomods.com has like 30,000 members and they havent been shut down

Fantom13 · Post by **Fantom13** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:29 am

Find a new host?

Juniorman030790 · Post by **Juniorman030790** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:34 am

Ask at xbox-scene. I mean there's not really any legal document to prove it.
And if they want to shut you down because they think it's illegal fock em!

A ppf/serenity is only a patch that determines descrepancies between maps.

If you really want to talk legal try emailing/chatting with M$ or Bungie.

Fantom13 · Post by **Fantom13** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:10 am

Yes that would go over well.

"Hey, im changing your game, and saving the changes into a patch. Is that Legal?"

-Just search for a new host.

mrhyperpenguin · Post by **mrhyperpenguin** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:34 pm

well, a ppf is a file that holds the differences between two files, and applies those changes to target file.

your host might be worried that those ppfs hold pirated material (models, sounds, bitmaps, metas). although halo pc/ce users can redistribute those models/sounds/bitmaps freely. or maybe they consider modifying peoples IP illegal.

but they are your host and they can shut you down even if they arent illegal(?).

lxNicktardxl · Post by **lxNicktardxl** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:24 pm

Fantom13 wrote:Yes that would go over well.

"Hey, im changing your game, and saving the changes into a patch. Is that Legal?"

-Just search for a new host.

Rofl

hellknight · Post by **hellknight** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:18 am

Well contacting bungie by email would prolly be your best bet. Then send that email to your host if they dont at least hear u out then i would find a new host

DeviousDave · Post by **DeviousDave** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:31 pm

There is nothing illegal about .ppf files. As proof show your host the "PPFomatic site" and that you can download the ppfomatic software. PPFs were originally for use with .iso files but people here use them for .map files. Nothing wrong with that. PPFs only cary differences between one file and another and can't carry copyrighted material as they don't cary files, just bit differences.

You could change your .ppf files to something like .pff and tell your end users to just change them back to a .ppf (or if your host doesn't buy changeing them to .pff then just do a .jpg or something or ever .txt)

Also: Why don't you counter by telling your host to prove that they are illegal. That should get them.

Iron_Forge · Post by **Iron_Forge** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:37 pm

Actually, PPF's can and do contain copyrighted material based on the way they work...

Given that most ISP's have a well written TOS/AUP that lets them terminate your account for whatever reason they see fit, you won't win this battle...Frankly, they're just being proactive...No ISP likes getting cease and desist letters from lawyers, and they aren't about to go to bat for you and risk their entire company based on one user, and what is at best a "grey-area"...

Cut your losses and move on...No amount of "proof" will change the fact that they can do as they please...

Shalted · Post by **Shalted** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:46 pm

Yes PPF's do contain copyrighted material, I believe they work something like this(If I remember correctly):

xyz
x is the offset
y is the amount of data to be written
z is the actual data being written

Z actually infringes copyright, but say it were a value that had been created by Xoring by the original & new values together.
Example:
original: 0x56
new: 0x25

Value in ppf: 0x73
Would it still be illegal?

Juniorman030790 · Post by **Juniorman030790** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:54 pm

Iron_Forge wrote:Actually, PPF's can and do contain copyrighted material based on the way they work...

Given that most ISP's have a well written TOS/AUP that lets them terminate your account for whatever reason they see fit, you won't win this battle...Frankly, they're just being proactive...No ISP likes getting cease and desist letters from lawyers, and they aren't about to go to bat for you and risk their entire company based on one user, and what is at best a "grey-area"...

Cut your losses and move on...No amount of "proof" will change the fact that they can do as they please...

And the great one has spoken

hellknight · Post by **hellknight** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:24 pm

Juniorman030790 wrote:
Iron_Forge wrote:Actually, PPF's can and do contain copyrighted material based on the way they work...

Given that most ISP's have a well written TOS/AUP that lets them terminate your account for whatever reason they see fit, you won't win this battle...Frankly, they're just being proactive...No ISP likes getting cease and desist letters from lawyers, and they aren't about to go to bat for you and risk their entire company based on one user, and what is at best a "grey-area"...

Cut your losses and move on...No amount of "proof" will change the fact that they can do as they please...

And the great one has spoken

Lol yeh. That sux tho that the host wont let you host them at all.Maybe even better for you, you may even happen to get a better host who knows.

Iron_Forge · Post by **Iron_Forge** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:26 am

Shalted wrote:Yes PPF's do contain copyrighted material, I believe they work something like this(If I remember correctly):

xyz
x is the offset
y is the amount of data to be written
z is the actual data being written

Z actually infringes copyright, but say it were a value that had been created by Xoring by the original & new values together.
Example:
original: 0x56
new: 0x25

Value in ppf: 0x73
Would it still be illegal?

Yes, that is how PPF's work, a basic dword by dword comparison...This assumes that changing the warthog skin to yellow constitutes "only new data", which I'm not convinced it does...

The real problem arises when you say, inject a new bitmap (or anything for that matter), shifting the map...No longer are all the values on the same bounds, so nearly everything after the shift is included in the patch...Much of which you didn't even change...

With basic shader swap mods, you could argue that no bungie IP is included in the PPF, and at the very least the end user must have the original map for it to be of any use...Again, you could argue that fact, it's still grey-area at best...But any mod with any time or effort is going to include Bungie IP...

It should be noted that Serenity patches also contain this IP...It just does it's best to minimize it...Which gets into the whole "if your breaking the law, it doesn't matter to what extent" arguement, but thats neither here nor there...

In the end, your ISP is always right, if they have issues with it, find a new one... ;o)