New map from scratch

DarkShallFall · Post by **DarkShallFall** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:04 pm

Um I'm actually learning programing right now lol i know i need more experience but i will be happy to assist in any program project

and lets end this discussion ok, its possible but not at the moment so yea tsk tsk to that.

-DeToX- · Post by **-DeToX-** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:58 am

Darkshallfall wrote:Agreed, the graphic's arnt the same and there is gunna be alot of differance so there will need to be a conversion app or a complete rebuild of the halo 2 vista map editor so yea.

Graphics.... Thats the least of our problems most likely.

Its the map structure they may use. We better hope the BSP is pretty much the same layout too.

Prey · Post by **Prey** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:24 am

Many raw data types may be changed. for example, .adpcm sounds to .wav
Maps will most probably be made smaller in every way possible (removing unused tags, removing the 20000+ bytes of index padding )

Thats all i can think of off the top of my head, positioning of things may also be changed i suppose for quicker access.. The engine is of course where the most changes will be happening, so we shouldnt worry too much...

shade45 · Post by **shade45** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:16 am

Prey wrote:
Many raw data types may be changed. for example, .adpcm sounds to .wav

Maps will most probably be made smaller in every way possible (removing unused tags, removing the 20000+ bytes of index padding )
Thats all i can think of off the top of my head, positioning of things may also be changed i suppose for quicker access.. The engine is of course where the most changes will be happening, so we shouldnt worry too much...

Yeah there will obviously be some changes, like you said probably mostly to the engine. But I dont see much to worry about either... We will have to just wait and see.

Less than a month now

blackdiamond · Post by **blackdiamond** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:44 am

it could take a while, but you could just copy the whole thing in hex, if that not illegal, then we could let people download them

Prey · Post by **Prey** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:47 am

blackdiamond wrote:it could take a while, but you could just copy the whole thing in hex, if that not illegal, then we could let people download them

No.

GM_Battleman021 · Post by **GM_Battleman021** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:37 am

foxfanatic23I7 wrote:I'm just going to say, halo 2 modding is going to collapse after the release of halo 3.

Nah.. you just dont understand.. i mean people said that about halo 1 modding when halo 2 was coming out.. yea i will be modding a 360.. because i am going to but the 360 elite because it has a 120g hdd.. i think that would be great for making map packs for halo 3 let alone the other games on the 360 you want to mod.. i have modded my ps2 and i play my modded Guitar hero 2 that i playe custom songs.. that would be alot easyer on a 360.. because i a ps2 u need to make a disk and u need a mod chip or swap magic.. which i think is a pain to get. In conclusion, i doubt that it will colapse.

shade45 wrote:
Prey wrote:
Many raw data types may be changed. for example, .adpcm sounds to .wav

Maps will most probably be made smaller in every way possible (removing unused tags, removing the 20000+ bytes of index padding )
Thats all i can think of off the top of my head, positioning of things may also be changed i suppose for quicker access.. The engine is of course where the most changes will be happening, so we shouldnt worry too much...
Yeah there will obviously be some changes, like you said probably mostly to the engine. But I dont see much to worry about either... We will have to just wait and see.

Less than a month now

The Map itself may not even be in a .map format as well.. You just never know.

blackdiamond · Post by **blackdiamond** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:04 pm

how come you cant just copy the hex edit? is it illegal?

OwnZ joO · Post by **OwnZ joO** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:15 pm

Darkshallfall wrote:Um I'm actually learning programing right now lol i know i need more experience but i will be happy to assist in any program project
and lets end this discussion ok, its possible but not at the moment so yea tsk tsk to that.

Programming knowledge is only half of it, you have to know about the map structure and what you need to program.

blackdiamond wrote:how come you cant just copy the hex edit? is it illegal?

It's not that simple.

h4xx3d · Post by **h4xx3d** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:41 pm

Anthony wrote:
h4xx3d wrote:Considering Halo 2 vista will be running on live, it may very well mean that M$ is going to allow user created content on live. They certainly could set it up to allow user created content on H2 xbox as well.
maybe for vista, but for xbox it will never happen because that would mean that they support xbox modification and they don't

I'm aware that they don't support modification, but they do appear to see the advantages to user created contend. If they didn't, they wouldn't be allowing users to develop applications for the 360 [for a cost, of course].

Halo 2 is going to lose the limelight right away with the release of the Halo 3 beta. User created content would help it's sales. They will be allowing use created content on their live service for H2 Vista.

I'd speculate that microsoft will offer a service which allows other users to download your maps via xbox live. This would allow bungie/M$ to verify content being played through their service. If there was a verification process, why not allow the maps to be downloaded and played on Xboxes as well? It would certainly boost interest and sales. We may not have the tools to convert maps from the Vista version of H2 upon release, but if bungie wanted to, they certainly could as they know everything about all their map formats.

I just feel it would make sense for them to support user created maps at some point. The reason they don't support modification is because it opens doors to cheating which devalues their service. Verified user created content would add a significant level of value.

-DeToX- · Post by **-DeToX-** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:25 pm

h4xx3d wrote: Halo 2 is going to lose the limelight right away with the release of the Halo 3 beta.

We didn't even learn how to mod content off the HDD yet without discs, and I doubt one would like to burn the game over and over for each map..

We would need to learn to mod the 360 more, and learn the H3 structure too...
If its even still .maps...

h4xx3d · Post by **h4xx3d** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:34 pm

That was meant in reference to the general public, not the modding community. If microsoft wants people to keep playing halo 2, they're going to need something more. Which is evidently why they're releasing the new maps shortly. Now, if they want it to be kept alive after H3's released, they're going to need something more. If they're going to release tools to make maps on H2 Vista, which is on live, then why not allow those maps to be played on H2 Xbox too?

-DeToX- · Post by **-DeToX-** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:34 pm

Because they don't support modding the Xbox...? ;o

Anthony · Post by **Anthony** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:36 pm

-DeToX- wrote:Because they don't support modding the Xbox...? ;o

yea I even said that before but he still thinks they do for some reason...

halo0001 · Post by **halo0001** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:22 pm

i personally think they should take an approach as the Farcry series did, and create a map maker, that would significantly reduce the modders on xbl if none. Because lets be honest xbl modders are cheaters i doubt they could figure out the h3 map structure and mod for cheating purposes, thats just what i think

Th2mods · Post by **Th2mods** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:35 pm

halo0001 wrote:i personally think they should take an approach as the Farcry series did, and create a map maker, that would significantly reduce the modders on xbl if none. Because lets be honest xbl modders are cheaters i doubt they could figure out the h3 map structure and mod for cheating purposes, thats just what i think

i know many live modders, and most of them have no clue what the hell they are doing, they just download a patch and FTP. i asked many of them if they knew what PPF or FTP even standed for, and there guesses where hilarious.
they done know "anything" about modding, all they can do is cheat.

if you ever come across a live modder, ask him simple modding questions. And they will most likely get them wrong, then it makes them think if they should accauly "try" to mod, and not make modding look horrible

XBC-Requiem · Post by **XBC-Requiem** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:41 am

I do understand what all the hype is bout, but when Halo 2 Vista is released, why would you want to play it on the Xbox anymore? Pesonally, I'd MUCH rather use a mouse and keyboard, which have been proven as better tools for any first-person shooter.

kornman00 · Post by **kornman00** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:47 am

GM_Battleman021 wrote: The Map itself may not even be in a .map format as well.. You just never know.

HG was paid to port the game, not redesign the engine.

The chances of Halo3 not using the same methodology is very slim.

Don't fix if its not broken (and has been developed for 8+ years)...

h4xx3d · Post by **h4xx3d** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:59 pm

Anthony wrote:
-DeToX- wrote:Because they don't support modding the Xbox...? ;o
yea I even said that before but he still thinks they do for some reason...

I in no way think they support "modding" in the sense of running unsigned code, altered maps, etc. If they did, Live would be in worse shape than it currently is.

However, they ARE releasing "Halo 2 Vista Editor." Halo 2 Vista WILL be playable on live. Hence, they ARE supporting user created content on Live.

Now, I was merely speculating. They could implement a system similar to mimesis through the xbox live marketplace that would allow the maps created with Halo 2 Vista Editor to be downloaded and used used on the xbox version of the game.

Prey · Post by **Prey** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:06 pm

h4xx3d wrote:
Anthony wrote:
-DeToX- wrote:Because they don't support modding the Xbox...? ;o
yea I even said that before but he still thinks they do for some reason...
I in no way think they support "modding" in the sense of running unsigned code, altered maps, etc. If they did, Live would be in worse shape than it currently is.

However, they ARE releasing "Halo 2 Vista Editor." Halo 2 Vista WILL be playable on live. Hence, they ARE supporting user created content on Live.

Now, I was merely speculating. They could implement a system similar to mimesis through the xbox live marketplace that would allow the maps created with Halo 2 Vista Editor to be downloaded and used used on the xbox version of the game.

But then all those who only have xbox1..

When you say "Halo 2 Vista WILL be playable on live", do you mean with 'Live Anywhere'? Cause i didnt know they were implementing that.