Help with Alpha Channels in Kirk's tutorial

[OpsY]

huh hello, eariler today i had a little feeling that it would be cool to learn about making CE maps and all well, i cdownloaded kirk's videos and listenned to them - it's not the first time but had a HDD failure so i lost all i had so far-. At some point he says something about using Alpha channels and making an alpha layer in paintshop pro 8. i've searched on these boards for about an hour for alpha channel and kirk and i couldn't find anything close to help ( the way explained in another topic turns my map in Pink) I have paintshop pro X and photoshop CS yet the paintshop Pro X doesn't have the image information tab...so if anyone could guide me trough that step i'd be very thankful!

[[cc]z@nd!]

in photoshop, go to the box that usually has layers in it, and look for the channels tab and click it. then click "add new channel" which should be named alpha. i believe i used the eraser in the alpha channel to erase over where i didn't want grass (it's different than in paintshop) but i'm not posotive.

[metkillerjoe]

Same thing with me. I didn't know how to get alpha channels in CS2.

By the way, I also listened to kirk's tutorials and there is a part I am stuck on.

He says that I need to put a bitmap in the skybox, I did that. He says that the gray area can be fixed with a UVW map, but when I apply that modifier the only thing that happens is an orange outline with gray area. Could somebody please tell me what I am doing wrong. For ref. I have 3DS Max 7. Thanks.

Edit: Why do alpha channels even need to be there? And on the grass of all places?

[[cc]z@nd!]

alpha channels are to say "ok, here's where you put the grass". and here's what i do in 3ds max 7 for my skybox


1) select the entire thing and set material id to 1

2) set "ignore backfacing" to on and select the two faces on the ground. set material id to 2

3) open the material editor, create an appropriate sub-object material with correct names. make the sky blue, or red, or whatever but make sure it's the first sub-object

4) select the 2nd sub-object and assign a bitmap to it. then, when in the bitmap options window, click the blue and white checkered box. then click go to parent, and then the blue and white checkered box.

5) click on the "faces selection" ion to get out of face selection mode, effectively selecting the entire box. go into the material editor, and assign material

6) if it doesn't show up, or if it needs to be mapped, add the uvw map modifier.

[metkillerjoe]

Thanks that worked.

I actually did that same thing before and it worked but I wasn't sure if I was doing it right because in the tutorials Kirk said that it needed a UVW map modifier applied. But thanks for confirming what I was doing was fair game.

Edit:

But if one already puts the grass there is it simply for a program in HEK?
Sorry just a bit confused about the purpose of the alpha channel.

And by the way, if I wanted to put a specific bitmap or texture on a specific face i would just need to select that face and assign right?

.. Sorry, never mind, figured that out

[[cc]z@nd!]

Thanks that worked.

I actually did that same thing before and it worked but I wasn't sure if I was doing it right because in the tutorials Kirk said that it needed a UVW map modifier applied. But thanks for confirming what I was doing was fair game.

yeah, i'm not posotive myself on wether a map really has to have a uvw map to run through tool right.

But if one already puts the grass there is it simply for a program in HEK?
Sorry just a bit confused about the purpose of the alpha channel.

like, the ground bitmap of your level already has grass on it instead of just green? it'll probably look weird with the alpha channel, and weird without. it just looks better with green-ish where you want grass and an alpha to match.

and as far as i understand, tool takes the alpha map for the ground texture when it's building the bitmaps, and adds the grass texture everywhere the alpha map is. for example, i think it's just like adding a grass layer underneath the background layer where the alpha is.

And by the way, if I wanted to put a specific bitmap or texture on a specific face i would just need to select that face and assign right?

.. Sorry, never mind, figured that out

yeah, you'd have another sub-object to make (i think). also, i think i heard something about certain sub-objects having to be certain things, like sub-object 1 absolutely has to be the sky, etc. for it to work correctly in tool. i don't know about it though, so if someone can clarify, that would help.

[metkillerjoe]

yeah, i'm not posotive myself on wether a map really has to have a uvw map to run through tool right.

I can check that out.

like, the ground bitmap of your level already has grass on it instead of just green? it'll probably look weird with the alpha channel, and weird without. it just looks better with green-ish where you want grass and an alpha to match.

and as far as i understand, tool takes the alpha map for the ground texture when it's building the bitmaps, and adds the grass texture everywhere the alpha map is. for example, i think it's just like adding a grass layer underneath the background layer where the alpha is.

I thought it was something like that. But no, all I did was at green color to the bitmap.

yeah, you'd have another sub-object to make (i think). also, i think i heard something about certain sub-objects having to be certain things, like sub-object 1 absolutely has to be the sky, etc. for it to work correctly in tool. i don't know about it though, so if someone can clarify, that would help.

As far as I can tell (correct me if I'm wrong), if you wanted to put sky color (let's say blue) to the sky box and you put the material id of the skybox to 1 and put the sky color as the first material it would come out that the sky box got the sky color, but if you selected the two faces (like in kirk's tutorial) and gave them a material id of 2 and set the second material to a bitmap then that would be assigned to that surface. Again correct me if I am wrong.

[metkillerjoe]

yeah, i'm not posotive myself on wether a map really has to have a uvw map to run through tool right.

I can check that out.

like, the ground bitmap of your level already has grass on it instead of just green? it'll probably look weird with the alpha channel, and weird without. it just looks better with green-ish where you want grass and an alpha to match.

and as far as i understand, tool takes the alpha map for the ground texture when it's building the bitmaps, and adds the grass texture everywhere the alpha map is. for example, i think it's just like adding a grass layer underneath the background layer where the alpha is.

I thought it was something like that. But no, all I did was at green color to the bitmap.

yeah, you'd have another sub-object to make (i think). also, i think i heard something about certain sub-objects having to be certain things, like sub-object 1 absolutely has to be the sky, etc. for it to work correctly in tool. i don't know about it though, so if someone can clarify, that would help.

As far as I can tell (correct me if I'm wrong), if you wanted to put sky color (let's say blue) to the sky box and you put the material id of the skybox to 1 and put the sky color as the first material it would come out that the sky box got the sky color, but if you selected the two faces (like in kirk's tutorial) and gave them a material id of 2 and set the second material to a bitmap then that would be assigned to that surface. Again correct me if I am wrong.

I'm not exactly sure but if you name the sky material to +sky then tool recognizes it and it doesn't have to be the first one. But I'll check that out, too.

[[cc]z@nd!]

lol double post.

anyways, yeah, this is how the material id thing works: each face with a certain material id has the texture of the corresponding material id applied to it. for example, if the 2nd sub-object of a multi-sub object is a bitmap named "bitmap", then all faces with a a material id matching it (2) will have that bitmap applied to them.

[metkillerjoe]

Thanks. That'll help a lot in the future and now.


P.S. sorry moderators for the double post. I screwed up.

Edit:

whenever i try to open sapien after making splinter.scenario it opens and closes in less than a second. Would this be related to something tool did or something that I did in the modeler or both? I checked in errors and closing quickly wasn't one of them.

Just checked it out even with kirk's premade tags and scenario sapien just shuts down.

[OpsY]

Thanks for the reply, i'll be sure to check that out when i get home. I'm just not sure, did anyone get it to wor with photoshop or it's all suppositions? i have painshop pro X too but it doesn't have the image properties tab anymore

[metkillerjoe]

I got it to work in photoshop and got the bitmap to compile in tool but to the texture didn't show up when I went through radiosity.

That and following Kirk's tut's, even the beginner ones, aren't a piece of cake. It's either I'm not listening or following directions or he isn't telling me stuff....

That or he runs 3DS 5 and I have 7.... and he didn't have photoshop.

[flyinrooster]

I got it to work in photoshop and got the bitmap to compile in tool but to the texture didn't show up when I went through radiosity.

That and following Kirk's tut's, even the beginner ones, aren't a piece of cake. It's either I'm not listening or following directions or he isn't telling me stuff....

That or he runs 3DS 5 and I have 7.... and he didn't have photoshop.

if you have Kornman00v2 all you have to do is open up the .scenario_structure_bsp and change the collsion material and material to your mapname shader_environment. Then it should look right.

[metkillerjoe]

Thank you. I've downloaded it.

I'll try it because as of now I am actually constructing an actual map.


Thanks again.