Community Project: PHMO Tag

Iron_Forge · Post by **Iron_Forge** » Mon May 22, 2006 8:38 am

kornman00 wrote:Well it makes for the most logical sense to decalre it unused, wouldn't want to confuse the poor souls that browse these forums...

And its a tag block ;x. So I guess none of the current tag definitions use those 2 blocks if your plugin generator didn't find them.

Ah, I just realized what you were complaining about, and they did indeed change it...I was thinking you were talking about:

<tag name="Unused" visible="false" />
<id name="Unused" visible="false" />

which basically defines a tag reference found, but not actually used in any map, however this plugin lacks them...It actually has:

<unused offset="16" size="24" />

which in the original IFP's were defined as:

<unused size="4" default="0" />

Which, basically means you could use it, but in every single tag currently used in the bungie release, that value was a 0 (int32)...Which, probably makes more sense to you... ;o)

azwethinkweiz · Post by **azwethinkweiz** » Mon May 22, 2006 5:54 pm

Here is some food for thought: Why do the grenades bounce off of the bsp mesh when collision is not present?

The only logical explanation is that there must be some relation to the mesh instead of the collision. Now I wonder why...

kornman00 · Post by **kornman00** » Mon May 22, 2006 6:08 pm

Not all of the tag blocks are used by all object types that require a physics model, because it takes different types of shapes to make up the needed data to perform physics calculations (for Havok anyway). For instance, vehicles use convex vertices shapes, bipeds use box and capsule shapes and weapons use spheres, to form each dynamic part.

Again, alot of the data that is stored in the physics model is Havok Physics object data, and unless you have some kind of access to the codebase (even then, you'd still need to know Bungie's extensions of the classes), I doubt most of you will gain any understanding of true meaning of data for each block any time soon...

Talin64 · Post by **Talin64** » Mon May 22, 2006 8:19 pm

Well aren't we feeling special

shade45 · Post by **shade45** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:30 pm

kornman00 wrote: I doubt most of you will gain any understanding of true meaning of data for each block any time soon...

Very encouraging

Winkler707 · Post by **Winkler707** » Sun May 28, 2006 9:01 pm

from what i've been looking at involving collision, the actual shapes(verts and edges) are in the coll tag along with the different projectile settings like how a projectile would react to the model, and the phmo tag includes bounding boxes for whatever reasons and the settings that involve how the model created in the coll tag reacts with biped, vehi, and environment

Kamatzu · Post by **Kamatzu** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:55 pm

Why is it that a pelican flips all over the place, and then you get in it and it is suddenly bound by normal collision laws again?

TfAv1228 · Post by **TfAv1228** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:00 pm

hmm i seem to remember being able to fly half way through stuff till i got to the mc with the pelican

Kamatzu · Post by **Kamatzu** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:05 pm

TfAv1228 wrote:hmm i seem to remember being able to fly half way through stuff till i got to the mc with the pelican

Ah you're right, I guess from third person it just looked like it was actually colliding. but you can still walk on it, shoot it, and bounce grenades off of it.

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:28 pm

You can fly halfway through bsp, but machs and I think scen will stop you.

Winkler707 · Post by **Winkler707** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:53 pm

ok well i think you should know that Winkler is on the case and is about to do about a million tests on different values in the coll/phmo tags and i give it a week and it will be figured out, anybody willing to write a program that will inject and extract phmo let me know because it will be no time at all before all the values fore the models of them get figured out

TunesRus90 · Post by **TunesRus90** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:03 pm

Winkler707 wrote:from what i've been looking at involving collision, the actual shapes(verts and edges) are in the coll tag along with the different projectile settings like how a projectile would react to the model, and the phmo tag includes bounding boxes for whatever reasons and the settings that involve how the model created in the coll tag reacts with biped, vehi, and environment

I doubt this because some objects have collision for projectiles in an area but no collision for bidpeds. However in a different area the same machine can have collision for both bipeds and projectiles. And i highly doubt both tags draw from the same set of verts but the phmo is somehow told not to use certain sections of those verts.

Snaku · Post by **Snaku** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:17 am

I would guess the phmo is simpler, since it only needs to collide with large objects and bipeds, and bsp collision would be simpler still.
The coll, I had thought was directly linked to the mode, but from what I've been hearing lately, maybe not. What I have observed is that when you break a model's bone off, the coll for it goes away, so it would appear that even if the coll is not based off the mode (like it doesn't use the same verts), it is still linked to it somehow.

Winkler707 · Post by **Winkler707** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:58 am

ok this is what i got...
collision has verts and edges and is designated to the projectile collision = more advanced
phmo has designated spawned shapes like cubes spheres and other simple shapes that can be manipulated by bounding boxes = less advanced
i have been able to modify a bounding box in the phmo tag to increase the size of a box which was affected the biped and the bsp
the only reason i can think of of why the pelican seems to have a seperate "thing" (for a lack of a better word) is because the phmo tag may actually contain seperate data for the bsp collision and when i modified the bounding box in the phmo tag it also modified the set of data for the bsp

PS: My findings about the phmo shapes is simply and assumption at this point based on how simple the code is for shapes like boxes and sphere shaped objects and the number and order of the logical floats, but i'm sure about what i said about the coll tag... and

TunesRus i've always loved that quote <3

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:35 pm

when i did research into this i thought i found bounding boxs but after further investigation, i realised i was wrong...for loads of reasons

Winkler707 · Post by **Winkler707** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:39 pm

ok here is headlong with the pallet edited
it's phmo and coll have been edited so that the pallet is twice as wide and twice as tall if you use grenades on it too often it has a tendancy to go through the map, and for some reason the teleporters don't work, i'm not sure what else i did to this map before i modified the pallet so wierd stuff might happen i don't know but you can find the pallet floating between the two teleporters you can jump on it or use an explosive to get it down

PS:xzodia please explain

xzodia · Post by **xzodia** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:05 am

i took a look at your plugin and it was different from where i found my wrong one

edit: i just tried to put this in an ifp,,,and your values cannot be correct unless the ifp structure is wrong(unlikely)

Winkler707 · Post by **Winkler707** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:23 pm

sorry the plugin is xml then it works but only for simple box shapes, the tire and most gargage phmo

*edit don't know how to write a plugin this one = my first one and i know it's not made right because it only works for those particular objects