So, whats the point?

jeebiss · Post by **jeebiss** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:11 am

So, I was a huge fan of Halo 2 modding back in the day.
You could do all kinds of stuff.
With Halo 3 now, it appears to be more hassle then it is worth.
As far as I can tell, all you can do is swap what spawns where, and potentially move its spawning position.
As great as that may seem, Bungie did that for us, by giving us forge.

Outside of adding pelicans to maps, and stuff like that, what is the point of modding Halo 3?

It would atleast be nice to swap projectiles, and other similar things.

I am not insulting all the people who worked hard to get as far as it has come, I am just wondering, what do people mod, that make it worth it? Also, when will I see the versatility that i saw in Halo 2.

xbox · Post by **xbox** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:33 am

I don't think anything will ever be like halo 2 was.
CON modding is fun for the first few time you do it, but after that it gets very boring.

newbymodder · Post by **newbymodder** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:04 pm

i think that basically it will come down to skinning for halo 3. I'd like to see good variants of mp maps. but other than that idk i guess we will just have to wait and see what people come up with.

jeebiss · Post by **jeebiss** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:41 pm

So, there is no point?
I feel like I have seen YouTube video with projectile swaps.

Maybe I am mistaken.

Shock120 · Post by **Shock120** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:56 pm

jeebiss wrote:So, there is no point?
I feel like I have seen YouTube video with projectile swaps.

Maybe I am mistaken.

who knows, maybe one day someone will make a hack for 360 that will allow us to run unsigned code.

or maybe Halo 3 will be made for PC? we'll have better chances of modding Halo 3 on PC.

The people that can mod, are having fun and/or researching, filling out plugins for Engineer. preparing the modding community for when our time comes.

jeebiss · Post by **jeebiss** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:58 pm

Shock120 wrote:
jeebiss wrote:So, there is no point?
I feel like I have seen YouTube video with projectile swaps.

Maybe I am mistaken.
who knows, maybe one day someone will make a hack for 360 that will allow us to run unsigned code.

or maybe Halo 3 will be made for PC?

Yeah, whats with this whole signing thing?
Is that what is preventing stuff such as, projectile swapping?

Eaton · Post by **Eaton** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:02 pm

jeebiss wrote:
Shock120 wrote:
jeebiss wrote:So, there is no point?
I feel like I have seen YouTube video with projectile swaps.

Maybe I am mistaken.
who knows, maybe one day someone will make a hack for 360 that will allow us to run unsigned code.

or maybe Halo 3 will be made for PC?
Yeah, whats with this whole signing thing?
Is that what is preventing stuff such as, projectile swapping?

Halo 3 maps are signed with RSA. An algorithm that we will never crack in out lifetimes. When you modify the map, you break the signature. The Halo 3 xex checks to see if the signature is valid. if it isn't, the map fails to load. We will never be able to resign the maps.

jeebiss · Post by **jeebiss** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:07 pm

Eaton wrote:
jeebiss wrote:
Shock120 wrote:
jeebiss wrote:So, there is no point?
I feel like I have seen YouTube video with projectile swaps.

Maybe I am mistaken.
who knows, maybe one day someone will make a hack for 360 that will allow us to run unsigned code.

or maybe Halo 3 will be made for PC?
Yeah, whats with this whole signing thing?
Is that what is preventing stuff such as, projectile swapping?
Halo 3 maps are signed with RSA. An algorithm that we will never crack in out lifetimes. When you modify the map, you break the signature. The Halo 3 xex checks to see if the signature is valid. if it isn't, the map fails to load. We will never be able to resign the maps.

RSA?
What is that?

Shock120 · Post by **Shock120** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:11 pm

jeebiss wrote:RSA?
What is that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA

I'll be happy to have Halo 3 for PC, it'll be much better than 360.

jeebiss · Post by **jeebiss** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:13 pm

So unless somehow halo 3's RSA is figured out, there is nothing that can be done?

Eaton · Post by **Eaton** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:30 pm

jeebiss wrote:So unless somehow halo 3's RSA is figured out, there is nothing that can be done?

It won't be "figured out". You need the private key from Bungie. So unless someone from Bungie leaks it, Halo 3 will remain in its unmodded state.

jeebiss · Post by **jeebiss** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:41 pm

Eaton wrote:
jeebiss wrote:So unless somehow halo 3's RSA is figured out, there is nothing that can be done?
It won't be "figured out". You need the private key from Bungie. So unless someone from Bungie leaks it, Halo 3 will remain in its unmodded state.

So, from a completely ignorant stand point i ask, cant we just emulate a proper key?
Convince Halo that the key is legit?
I dont know anything about how it works, but somewhere in Halo, it must be like "im going to check this key, hey look its a bad key, dont load" or vice versa.
Why cant we trick the security check?

unknownv2 · Post by **unknownv2** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:52 pm

You can't edit the xex, because it is also signed with a key we don't have. This is why people need dev kits.

jeebiss · Post by **jeebiss** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:56 pm

unknownv2 wrote:You can't edit the xex, because it is also signed with a key we don't have. This is why people need dev kits.

Hmmm, what does a dev kit do?

Tural · Post by **Tural** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:58 pm

Indeed. You cannot modified the executable that checks and run it on an unmodified console, due to the same security. To do so, you'd have to find a way to make the console properly run unsigned code, which simply isn't happening, and as it hasn't after three years of the console being out, I highly doubt it will be, and even if it is, at this point it's never going to be like original Xbox modding was. People have moved on. Halo 3 modding will never be like Halo 2 modding was, it's too late now.

Edit: A dev kit runs unsigned code, meaning you can edit the xex file and it will still run. Retail consoles will not run a modified xex.

xbox · Post by **xbox** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:04 pm

Tural wrote:...after three years of the console being out...

Wasn't the 360 released back in '05?

Tural · Post by **Tural** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:07 pm

November 2005. It hasn't been four years. It's been just over three years.

unknownv2 · Post by **unknownv2** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:07 pm

Tural wrote:Indeed. You cannot modified the executable that checks and run it on an unmodified console, due to the same security. To do so, you'd have to find a way to make the console properly run unsigned code, which simply isn't happening, and as it hasn't after three years of the console being out, I highly doubt it will be, and even if it is, at this point it's never going to be like original Xbox modding was. People have moved on. Halo 3 modding will never be like Halo 2 modding was, it's too late now.

Edit: A dev kit runs unsigned code, meaning you can edit the xex file and it will still run. Retail consoles will not run a modified xex.

I thought dev kits didn't really run unsigned code. Don't people just sign it with the dev kit's keypair?

Tural · Post by **Tural** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:09 pm

I don't know, but it makes no difference whatsoever.

Veegie · Post by **Veegie** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:24 pm

unknownv2 wrote:
Tural wrote:Indeed. You cannot modified the executable that checks and run it on an unmodified console, due to the same security. To do so, you'd have to find a way to make the console properly run unsigned code, which simply isn't happening, and as it hasn't after three years of the console being out, I highly doubt it will be, and even if it is, at this point it's never going to be like original Xbox modding was. People have moved on. Halo 3 modding will never be like Halo 2 modding was, it's too late now.

Edit: A dev kit runs unsigned code, meaning you can edit the xex file and it will still run. Retail consoles will not run a modified xex.
I thought dev kits didn't really run unsigned code. Don't people just sign it with the dev kit's keypair?

No.